How SEO, paid ads, and video work together as one strategy. Brenton Thomas.

Brenton Thomas is a GEO, SEO, and paid-advertising expert who runs the agency Twibi and focuses on bottom-of-funnel leads and revenue. In his second conversation with Dane, he tackles the question every B2B marketer is asking right now: as AI overviews push organic listings down the page, how do you combine SEO, paid ads, and video into one strategy instead of three separate ones?

Key Takeaways

• Organic clicks are declining as AI overviews push listings down the page. Do good SEO and you can hold organic steady while referral traffic from ChatGPT and other AI tools rises in GA4.
• Brenton's SEO process: use a tool like SEMrush to find target keywords with real volume (around 100+ searches a month) and low difficulty (under 20 out of 100), then insert them into key spots on the page.
• Paid ads make sense when you have budget. Plan on at least $1,000 a month so the algorithm can learn who converts, and expect to pay roughly $150 for a high-quality lead depending on the industry.
• Organic and paid feed each other. A piece that performs well organically can become a paid ad without spending thousands to test it, and you can retarget your organic audience with remarketing.
• Video belongs inside a blog post. It lifts session duration to four or five minutes and pulls visitors deeper into the site, and most SEO agencies ignore it, which is the opening.
• The biggest misconception: treating SEO, GEO, and video as separate efforts. They have to be one combined ecosystem.

We've run this play for B2B teams for years. If you want proof before the process, here's what it looked like for a real team.

Why is organic search traffic declining?

Because AI is taking a cut of the clicks, and AI overviews now sit above everything else on the page. Brenton says the decline is real, but the picture in your analytics is more nuanced than it looks.

"Definitely the declining organic search traffic. AI is starting to steal some of that traffic inside of Google Search Console. But if you do good SEO, we do see inside of GA4, you get more referral traffic from ChatGPT and some of the other AI platforms." — Brenton Thomas

The layout of the results page is the other half of the story. When AI overviews take the top slot, the familiar organic listings get pushed far down.

"You do a search for any term and it's the AI overviews, the first thing. Then below that is paid ads, then the maps, and then the organic listings start. So you're halfway down the page by the time you're organically showing up." — Brenton Thomas

What should you do first when search traffic drops?

Apply SEO, and start with keyword research. Brenton's process is deliberately simple and built around finding terms you can actually rank for.

"Usually I'm doing keyword research. I like SEMrush to find the right target keywords. Those target keywords need to have a good amount of volume, maybe at least a hundred searches per month, and low difficulty, so try to get a difficulty under 20 out of 100. Then start to insert that target keyword into key spots for the page." — Brenton Thomas

Volume confirms people are actually searching the term. Low difficulty means you have a realistic shot at the page-one positions that still get clicks.

When does paid advertising make sense?

When you have the budget to let the algorithm learn. Brenton is blunt that paid ads are not a small commitment, but they buy you the one thing organic can't: the top of the page, immediately.

"You need to spend at least a thousand dollars per month to really let the paid ads algorithm optimize and understand who will convert. Once you get the conversions, they start to build and snowball on itself, because it teaches the system. We know that Google wants you to pay to play." — Brenton Thomas

With AI overviews pushing organic down, paid is how you stay visible at the top while your SEO compounds underneath.

What should you expect from paid ads?

Expect to set up conversion tracking first, and expect to pay for quality. Brenton warns that the technical setup is not optional, because it's what the whole platform learns from.

"You have to set up your conversion tracking, which is technical. That is the basis of the learning of the entire platform. For lead generation, for high quality leads, you might pay like $150. It really depends on the industry." — Brenton Thomas

If you skip the tracking, the results won't be good, because Google has nothing to optimize toward. Get it right and the cost-per-lead becomes a number you can plan around.

How do organic content and paid ads work together?

They de-risk each other. Brenton's favorite move is to let organic do the testing for free, then pour budget on what already works.

"If you have organic content that performs really well, and you have a good sample size, it could translate into a nice paid ad. You found out organically for free, and then you turn it into a paid ad." — Brenton Thomas

The second connection is remarketing. As organic content builds an audience, you can retarget that audience with paid ads and walk them through a curated journey, instead of paying to reach cold strangers.

Should you build organic first or run both at once?

It depends on whether you're short on time or short on money. Brenton frames it as a straight trade.

"It's one or the other. It's time or money that is sacrificed." — Brenton Thomas

If you're a small or budget-conscious brand, build the organic base first and let it compound over about six months, then add paid as the accelerant. If you're a larger brand with budget and you need answers faster, run both at the same time. As Dane put it in the conversation, organic is eating your vegetables and everyone wants the candy now, but the compounding only comes from the patient version.

How do you measure whether video is working?

Watch GA4, and watch session duration. Brenton treats GA4 as his source of truth and looks for video lifting the engagement signals on a page.

"Video should definitely increase the session duration, because there's something to watch. Video is more engaging than words on a blog post, so that should boost it really high, four or five minutes. And it should influence them going deeper into the website." — Brenton Thomas

When those KPIs look strong, the page has earned promotion. Strong session duration and deeper site visits are the signal that it's time to put paid budget behind the video.

What should you look for in an SEO vendor?

A vendor focused on blog posts and long-tail keywords, willing to write content for you, and able to combine video. That last point is where most agencies fall short.

"A lot of the really good traffic is going to be blog posts, long tail keywords about a specific topic. Ideally they need to write some of the content for you. And insertion of video helps. A lot of SEO agencies do not work on the video aspect, so if you can combine the two, that's a big advantage." — Brenton Thomas

But it isn't a hands-off relationship. The client has to stay involved, because they know things the agency never will.

"The client's gonna know their brand way better than the SEO agency. So the client still needs to be very involved to create that feedback loop." — Brenton Thomas

Brenton makes that involvement easy by consolidating everything into one spreadsheet for batch review: "Here's a batch of pages. If you have 30 minutes, you can knock out five pages," and that keeps the team good for about a month.

What is the biggest misconception about SEO, GEO, and video?

That they're three separate jobs. Brenton's parting message is that the brands winning right now refuse to silo them.

"The biggest misconception is that people think they're all separate, that you're going to do something special for SEO, something special for GEO, and something different for video. Really all of it needs to be combined. It needs to be one ecosystem." — Brenton Thomas

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Frequently Asked Questions

Why is organic search traffic declining?

Brenton Thomas says AI is taking some of the clicks, and AI overviews now sit at the top of the results page above paid ads, maps, and organic listings. The upside: with good SEO you can hold organic steady while GA4 shows rising referral traffic from ChatGPT and other AI platforms.

How much should you budget for paid ads?

Brenton recommends at least $1,000 a month so the paid-ads algorithm has enough conversions to learn who converts. He says high-quality leads average around $150 each depending on the industry, and that conversion tracking has to be set up first because it's the basis of the platform's learning.

How do SEO and paid ads work together?

A piece of content that performs well organically can be turned into a paid ad without spending thousands to test it, since you proved it works for free. You can also build an audience with organic content and then retarget that audience with paid ads through remarketing.

What should B2B companies look for in an SEO vendor?

Brenton says the vendor should focus on blog posts and long-tail keywords, write some of the content for you, and combine video, which most SEO agencies skip. The client should also stay involved, because they understand their brand's nuances better than any agency.

What is a holistic SEO, GEO, and video strategy?

It means treating SEO, GEO, and video as one combined ecosystem rather than three separate projects. Brenton says the biggest misconception in the market is doing something special for each one, when the strategy has to consider all three together.

Connect with Brenton Thomas

Brenton Thomas runs the agency Twibi and works on SEO, GEO, and paid ads for B2B companies. Connect with him on LinkedIn.

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Full Interview Transcript

Dane: Hey everybody, my name is Dane Frederiksen. I'm the founder of Digital Accomplice, and I'm on a mission to help B2B companies be more visible, trusted, and to grow pipeline with video. And today I'm joined again by Brenton Thomas, and he is a GEO, SEO expert, among many other things, paid advertising. What else do we need to know about what you're up to and focused on right now? And welcome.

Brenton: Yeah, that pretty much covers it. Thanks for having me today, Dane.

Dane: Yeah, absolutely. So I always like to start at what's top of mind for you about the changes in the marketplace and the challenges we're all facing. Things are changing so fast. What's got your attention at the moment?

Brenton: Yeah, definitely the declining organic search traffic. I think AI is starting to steal some of that traffic inside of Google Search Console, which is a great tool to understand how Google is indexing your website and how much traffic you're getting from Google organically. Definitely seeing some declining clicks. But if you do good SEO, we do see inside of GA4, you get more referral traffic from ChatGPT and some of the other AI platforms.

Dane: Right. So I always wonder, for people that aren't as deep into SEO and GEO as you are, when people see their search traffic start to go down, what's the first thing that they need to know, do you think?

Brenton: When the search traffic starts to go down, you definitely need to apply some SEO to it. There's a lot of overlap between the two. My process for SEO, usually I'm doing keyword research. I like SEMrush to find the right target keywords. Those target keywords need to have a good amount of volume, maybe at least a hundred searches per month, and low difficulty, so try to get a difficulty under 20 out of 100, so pretty easy to rank for. And then start to insert that target keyword into key spots for the page that you identified that you want the keyword to be added to.

Dane: Right. So when does paid advertising come into the conversation? When does that start to make sense rather than just doing SEO optimization?

Brenton: Yeah, so it really comes down to if you have the budget to do it. It's a little expensive. You need to spend at least a thousand dollars per month to really let the paid ads algorithm optimize and understand what's happening and who will convert by getting conversions. Because you have to spend a decent amount to get the conversions, and then once you get the conversions, they'll start to build and snowball on itself, because it teaches the system, the algorithm. So if you have the budget, I would jump right into it. I would start paid ads. We know that Google wants you to pay to play. And so as you lose your organic footing, and especially as AI overviews are pushing down everything, I've seen for clients, you do a search for any term and it's the AI overviews, the first thing, then below that is paid ads, then the maps, and then the organic listings start. So you're halfway down the page by the time you're organically showing up. So paid ads is a great way to just be at the top.

Dane: Right. So for someone who's not really done much paid advertising, what should they expect as far as the results? How quick, and if they're spending a thousand dollars a month, what do they get for that?

Brenton: If you've never done paid ads before, you have to set up your conversion tracking, which is technical in nature. You have to tag up the website. So if there's a desired action you want to happen from paid ads, let's say you want purchases, you need to go to your checkout and set up the tracking to feed that information back to Google Ads. And if you've never done paid ads before, you probably won't know how to set that up. And that is the basis of the learning of the entire platform. So the results won't be good. But let's say a new person could figure that out. I would say for lead generation, for high quality leads, you might pay like $150. It really depends on the industry. I've seen it really low, but on average, about $150 for a high quality lead is what I've seen.

Dane: Right. So as the AI overviews make the search traffic go down, does that then make the ads more expensive? I've heard that anecdotally.

Brenton: I have clients across a number of different industries. Off the top of my head, I haven't seen them become more expensive. I'm sure there's probably more competition. The more advertisers bidding for certain keywords, the more expensive it'll be. Maybe it's slowly increased over the past year, so I haven't noticed a sharp increase, but it probably will become more expensive as time goes on.

Dane: So what do we know about the intersection of organic content and advertising and how those work together to support each other? I'd be concerned that I wouldn't want to get the wrong people, or they click on an ad and then I lose them after that.

Brenton: Yeah, I've seen it work well. If you have organic content that performs really well, but you have to have a good sample size, it could translate into a nice paid ad. You wouldn't have to spend thousands of dollars to figure out if this is a top performing ad. You found out organically for free and then you turn it into a paid ad. So that's a very helpful intersection of the two. Remarketing audiences, that's another great way. As you have organic content, you drive a lot of traffic to it, let the audience build, and then you can take that audience and retarget them through paid ads and show them a curated journey. Those are the main two that come to mind.

Dane: So it sounds like the strategy is to build an organic base first to test the messaging, make sure you're getting feedback and people engaging, and then based on what you're learning, use advertising investment as gasoline on the fire to accelerate. Does that sound right?

Brenton: Yeah, if you're a small brand, yes. If you're budget conscious and you need to watch every dollar, you can find those things out for free. It's going to take more time. If you're conscious with your budget but you have more time to give, you can wait a while to let the organic content build over six months, then yes. If you're a larger brand and you have decent budget and you can afford to test and learn and spend the budget, and you need the answer faster, then I would work on both at the same time.

Dane: It's funny. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say we've got plenty of time to figure this out. Everyone needs results now, especially with quarterly results. How does that get approved? It's like eating your vegetables, nobody wants the vegetables, they want the candy now.

Brenton: Yeah. It's one or the other. It's time or money that is sacrificed. Unless you create some content that really speaks to a niche audience and it's perfectly written and it gets indexed really quickly, which is super rare. But that could happen, and then maybe in a few months you're like, okay, this is definitely top performing content, it's still building, performance looks great, let's just throw it into paid ads. That doesn't happen very often.

Dane: Right. So I'm getting curious about video specifically. If you're rolling out organic content, the thought leadership stuff we're doing here, what's the right way to measure the success? And when does that tip over into flipping the switch on paid ads?

Brenton: I've seen video work well when it's in line with a blog post, so it's on a web page. The video will enhance the overall UX of the page and you'll start to see traffic land on that page from GA4. I tend to use GA4 as a source of truth. As that page builds, you'll see session duration, how long people are spending on the page. Video should definitely increase the session duration because there's something to watch. Video is more engaging than words on a blog post, so that should boost it really high, four or five minutes. And it should also influence them going deeper into the website. If you see all of those KPIs look really strong, those are all signs that you could take that and promote it via paid ads.

Dane: So how do you think about choosing a vendor to help with SEO, GEO, and paid ads? It's a noisy market. What does a B2B customer need to be looking for?

Brenton: Good question. The first thing I would say is the vendor needs to be focused on your blog posts. The main parts of the page, the homepage, service level pages, case studies, those are all important. But a lot of the really good traffic is going to be blog posts, long tail keywords about a specific topic. They need to have a strong focus on that. Ideally, they need to write some of the content for you, like actual blog posts. And insertion of video definitely helps. That's a crucial piece. A lot of SEO agencies do not work on the video aspect, so if you can combine the two, that's a big advantage.

Dane: I've had the sense that one of the things people really want out of an SEO partner is just go do it for me, take it off my plate. But it sounds like there has to be more of an active role, where you're engaged with that brand to get the insider knowledge and make an ongoing content pipeline. Does that sound right?

Brenton: Yeah. In that collaboration between the client and the SEO agency, the client's going to know their brand way better than the SEO agency. There are nuances. The SEO agency might know the industry at a high level, but they don't know the nuances of your exact brand. So the client still needs to be very involved to create that feedback loop of how the brand should be positioned and what makes the brand different within its industry. A very tight, cohesive collaboration is important.

Dane: I can imagine people being concerned about how much time it's going to take. What are some ways you make that easier to work with someone?

Brenton: Me and my team, we put everything into spreadsheets. We consolidate everything that needs to be reviewed all into one spreadsheet. The client doesn't have to look at each individual page. It's like, here's a batch of pages. If you have 30 minutes, you can knock out five pages and then we'll take it from there. We'll write everything, you do the rewrites and give us a thumbs up, and after that batch is reviewed, we're good for about a month. Then we do another batch next month. That works really well to consolidate everything that needs to be reviewed.

Dane: Is there a way to measure ROI of that service, the time and money investment?

Brenton: On the client side we don't track their time and we don't really track our time either. It's possible, we could create a timesheet. For our management fee, that ROI is easier to calculate, it's just a retainer. But we do set up tracking inside GA4, so if a conversion comes through from organic search, hopefully that lead becomes a client, and then we can compare what was spent on our agency and what revenue was generated off that lead. So we can give that ROI. Typically we don't go into hours spent, but it's possible.

Dane: As a parting thought, what is the biggest misconception out there in the marketplace about using SEO, GEO, and video together?

Brenton: I think the biggest misconception is that people think they're all separate, that you're going to do something special for SEO, something special for GEO, and something different for video. Really all of it needs to be combined. It needs to be one ecosystem. When you're working on your strategy across those three, you need to consider all three parts, and it needs to be one combined strategy.

Dane: Great. Well, this is great insight. Thanks for sharing today.

Brenton: Thanks for having me.